Stanley Cup playoffs in full swing. And in studio, two legends of the Pickle Pickle Ball Circuit, the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes. Tom Dundon and Justin Williams, a Hurricanes Hall of Famer. This, this is very good. I, you, you guys look right off the pickleball court. It's very nice. Thank you very much for coming in. I appreciate, uh, what you guys are doing. All right. Are we, are we all set in there? I think we're all set in there. Did you play pickleball tonight? We did. How'd you do? Did you win? Come on. Did Justin play it with you? So you, so the answer is, yes. A lot of people don't know this but Tom's a, just because he owns the Pickleball circuit. He's a very, very good pickleball. He played tennis very, very good. You were, you were a tennis player in college? Tom's pretty hot. It doesn't make you. He's good with a racket for sure. That's for sure. He's good with a paddle. So, uh, I know Rod Brien more played in the, uh, the pro M, you guys had a couple of weeks ago when I was in Phoenix for the final four and Humble brag. Humble brag there, I was gone because I couldn't make it because I was here. Exactly. Exactly. Um, but Rod said that you're, that Justin, you're like half a pro at pickleball. I'm not, but I have a good time with it for sure. And when Tom comes into the town, we either play some golf or play some pickle and wait for the Cannes games at night. So, is he better at pickleball or golf? Pickle? Really? Is he better at pickle ball or golf? I know he's good at ball. He just played in a celebrity invitational golf tournament. Uh Talking about humble brag is like Justin, let's talk, let's talk Keynes and he sends me a little like tweet a text about. Yeah, I'm playing the celebrity invitational golf term which Eric Cole was out there for the, just hung out with you for a day. He came and played the program and there was a little pickleball exhibition too that they had there also as well. Paddle. Is it a racket? I can sign a racket and call it my own. That's fine. Alright, let's talk a little uh a little hockey. Let me, let me ask, uh, start with the uh the owner here. Uh business. Good. Yeah, with, it's been pretty good. It's a good year. Uh It has, it has been a good year. Um How, how, how have you dealt with the fact that at the beginning of the season, the team was the favorite and then as we got back to the playoffs again, the team is the favorite. Does that make you more nervous? Uh, or can you even possibly be more nervous than you normally are before any game? I don't, I, I don't know, I hadn't thought about it like that. It's probably about the same. You're right. I just, there's always a chance you could lose and that chance is what makes you nervous right now. You, you know, this is a, is as well or better than anybody. Justin the, you could, it doesn't make a difference how good you are the first round of the NHL playoffs. Rod said to me the other day that it's the toughest round to win. Uh, what do you, what do you think about just round one? How do you, how do you approach it? Because it, it really doesn't matter. You could lose. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if I disagree or agree with that. People expect the first round would be hard. Right. It's not, that makes any round less hard. It just, everybody's usually pretty healthy but, you know, to kind of go back with Thomas and, you know, are you, are you nervous that you may lose? Yeah, you, you, you might lose, but a lot of luck goes into it as well and, and the luck part, I mean, being healthy, you know, you could see last year we weren't very healthy. Obviously, we had the esper fost out, but that's one guy on our team. Uh, and with the depth we have, we're able to overcome that. But, but being healthy going to the playoffs is such a big, such a big tool to have and such a big, uh benefit for us, uh, having our full, full complement of play. Is that luck is, is it in a way, is it a little bit? A little bit? Yes. It, it comes down to it. Absolutely. Um, obviously taking care of yourself and, and, and stretching and doing preventative stuff is very important. But, you know, there's the freak accidents that happen. It's hockey, it's a fast sport. Everybody knows that and you can get hurt, uh, when it's not really your fault. So I'm happy with the way we're, we're coming in. I'm happy we won the first game, but I know we have a long way to go. Oh, my gosh, one of, uh, one of 16 wins that you're trying to get and they're, they're all difficult. Um, uh, have you, Tom, have you suggested to Rod who he should start in goal tonight? No, he doesn't take suggestions. There's no suggestion box down there. Oh, there should be. So, who do you expect to be in goal tonight? I assume it'll be Freddie. I didn't even ask. Do you know, I, it's gonna be, I don't care who they're all good. So, so I do too. And like I talked to him at five o'clock tonight and the first question I'm gonna ask, who is it? I'm not going to say if he says Pyotr, I'm not gonna say, are you nuts? Because we know Kuko has been so good since December 12th. I mean, the, the numbers, that's a, that's a pretty big sample size since December 12th. He's a top five goalie in the league. Since then. All, all of the metrics say that whether he is or not, in everybody's mind. All of the metrics say he's top five goal in the league since then. I won't say that, but I think it's Freddie based on the way he's way he's played. That's just, that's the way I look at it. You have to comment about that. They've all played very, very well for us. Certainly this, you know, the last three quarters of the season, they, they played extremely well for us giving us a chance to win and we're certainly not at a disadvantage to any team. When, when, when you start a playoff series, what do you think of the, no, the save on no ab in the third period? Tom, pretty fortunate. We talk about luck. Now. You, you, you, you have a, you wear hats a lot with a shamrock on it. Not on purpose, but no, I've seen, I've seen that. Right. I don't, I'm sure it's a logo for something. But, um, it there was an element of luck in that save Noah Dobson is an elite, defensive offensive player, had, I think 60 points in 70 games this year. And, I mean, he's got a lot of net and Freddie kind of paying homage to Ketv. I don't need a stick. I mean, you make, I'm a firm believer in you making your own luck. I really am. And it's sometimes people call it luck when the puck just seems to find you. But I call it an innate ability to just be in the right spot, read the play. Um, kind of see where the puck's going before others do. And, um, obviously Freddie, that was just a acrobatic save. I'm thinking he's thinking he's gonna shoot high. I'm gonna do everything I can to keep this puck out of the net and he did it and it was a big moment and a big game changer. And, um, we're gonna need plenty more of those to be successful. Win, 15 more. The two shifts after that created the Nason goal, right. The Coke and Emes line comes on the ice. After that, they might have been on the ice for that shift for all I know. But the, the next part of the next minute was spent in the New Jer in the New York end. And then Kuznetsov's line comes on the ice and they spent all that time in the e in, in that end of the ice and it created the Nason goal. Um It's funny, I don't think, I don't think I'll be wrong or will be wrong about the goalie tonight. But man, and I'm going to direct this to you, Tom, I've been wrong about two major things this year about this team in the off season. I'm like, come on, they're not going into free agency. It's not what they do and then Michael Bunting and Dmitri Orlov and then at the trade deadline when all the stuff about Jake gel is hitting, I'm like people, the Hurricanes don't do rental players. Like, what are we doing? Oh, for two. So I could be wrong. I could be wrong tonight. Walk me through the philosophy about why you thought this was the year to a delve into free agency and because there's no guarantees that Jake will be here next year and to do something like that at the deadline, you know, the free agency, as long as we can get shorter term contracts, we're always in the middle of it. It's just if someone gives a contract that buys years that won't help us give us enough value, then that's why we don't do it. It's not that we're anti free agency. It's just sometimes at the age that players hit free agency and the amount of term they get, it's hard to, it's hard to make that work, uh with a salary cap and then on the trade deadline, I mean, look, we were fortunate that we had an extra pick. You know, I believe you got to keep your picks and that's how you find some of the guys we find. Um, and usually when there's rental players, they're not like this guy. Right? He's just a little better than most of them. So it's a lot of times you're paying a similar price, we'd rather pay more and get the best and get something pretty good and pay a lot. So I'll pay more than a lot to get the best. Have you thought about Jake next year? I don't think, don's talked to them just because it was all so rushed and kind of a difficult time of the year to do it. Yeah. And it's, we have so many free agents, it's just time to, there'll be time to do that in later. There's a lot, there's a lot of free agents. Yeah, you guys are gonna have a very busy, uh, and not a lot of time to do it based on hopefully playing all the way into the end of June. Yeah, I mean, I think one of the best things for free agents is, is to just present them what we are right. And time really, you know, the better we play, the further we play, the more players get to know the area, get to know the players on the team, get to know the coach, the management, everybody in the, in the hurricane's family that will give them a better opportunity to give us a better opportunity to, to resign them if, if potentially there's something to fit. So, um you know, when you say you don't want to rush into it, right, you wanna give them a good opportunity to see what we have to offer too. And I think it's, it's pretty darn high. Justin Williams and Tom Dundon are in studio. I probably should have asked this before we started. Uh But give me a time frame for how long you guys wanna be here before? Uh you wanna like fly out of here because I could take a break now, come back and talk to you for another 15 minutes or I can go a little now and then let you go. So you tell me what you want to do. I'm fine. It's up to you. Let's go a little longer now because I'm getting kinda hungry. It's past my life. Your lunch time right after the pickle ball that's running a little longer. That's fine. Sorry to hear a guy. He overruled you. Everybody does. That's what nobody realizes that that's actually what happens. Uh Alright. Um uh th this is a bigger NHL picture real quick, real quick. I wanna get to this. So we already had it. We had an instance with the hurricanes in Boston a couple of weeks ago uh where a goal was disallowed because it wasn't completely across the line uh my understanding was the NHL didn't provide like a, a clear enough picture to either bench that said no goal, goal was given on the ice, no goal. Um Last night in Colorado Winnipeg, there was, I mean, gong show of a game, but there was a similar situation where they said no goal on the ice and then overturned it pretty quickly. And I was watching the game on ESPN, they did not provide anything that was clear. What kind of responsibility does the league have in real time to show both benches. Here's why and provide that also to all broadcast. Because now in the first round of the playoffs, you've got not only the national but both local broadcast. If we can get tennis at 100 and 35 mile an hour serve to determine the ball, hit the back of the line in real time with a computer and everybody knows. Yes or no. Why can't we do that at hockey? I'll start with you. I think it's coming. I think there's things that are being tested and processes. Um, we have a feed so our guys have the same feed they have in Toronto. So I don't think it's that big of an issue for the team, but when it comes to the broadcast and the fans, I agree that there's, we could improve it. And then as if you put in the right technology, then it'll just make it that more that much finer of getting it. Right. I remember watching that too and, and no one really seemed to complain. It was a really quick turnaround. Puck went in and off. We go and there was nothing on TV. There was with the overhead that they have. I don't know if they showed it, but it's clearly in, I saw it after, but during it, I was like, whoa, don't they want to look at this again? But they so quick, obviously, when it's that quick, he came, it's a goal. And, you know, I saw bed. Nara not really argue and I'm everyone assumes that they get on the TV. They didn't show that overhead view. No, they showed the overhead view but, but they didn't show like they didn't zoom in and show definitively because at that point, the puck was almost at its end, right? Um And I didn't, I didn't see a non fuzzy picture of the nature's skull that was overturned in Boston. I think it probably was the right call, but I agree with you between the fact that the paint isn't perfectly cut and the camera quality is not probably where it'll be in the future that even though I don't think it was a goal, it was, it'd be nice to have it more definitive and I think you will in time. So why can't we like, I'm also a big soccer watcher and VA R even if the angle is not perfect they can draw lines, they call it drawing lines. And it's just basically, it's a laser line. Why can't we have a laser line right along the back of the goal line that definitively tells us. All right, the puck is in the puck is not, that just seems, seems logical to me. I don't think that's, I don't, I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to say. I think it's just a matter of time. I think sometime in the future you're probably right. That happens. I try, I try not to be, uh, I try not to be unreasonable. You're ahead of your time. How many people have told you that? Uh, nobody, you, you, you, you would, uh, you would be, you would be the first, um, Sebastian, aho. Um, you got here and you knew he was, he was gonna be the face you played with him? Justin, how much better is he today than he was five years ago? Well, I didn't know that first year when I, when I was watching, no, when I was watching his first year before I bought the team, I wasn't sure if he was just a really good player on a bad team and that's scary. Right? Like he's getting all this because he's getting every opportunity. But if he had better players around him, he wouldn't get those opportunities. So he's definitely better than I initially thought. Now after the first year, that second year, the first year when I, when they made the playoffs, then you knew. Right. You know. But, yeah, that first year when he's, when you're playing on a bad team and you're a really good player, it's hard to know if you're just getting that opportunity because there's nobody better and somebody's got to score goals. Someone does all the teams score 2.5 goals a game. So, I mean, Sebastian has been such an awesome, it's been really cool to watch his development come from just coming in being a player and just slowly gradually taking the steps that he's taken. Not only, not only on the ice, he's such a leader in the dressing room too. And um the way he plays his, his uh demand to be better. And when you see that from your best players, I mean, your best players have to be your best workers and we have that, right? And that's how you develop the culture, blah, blah, blah. You hear Roddy talk about it all the time, right? So watching him play in practice and watching him play during the game, watching how much he cares, watching how much he has taken on a leadership role on this team. Um really has been special to watch his development from a young player to uh a young star in this league. And um you know, eventually I'm sure um one day a captain, yeah, if the other captain just keep doesn't stop playing Jordan's still, I mean, he's not playing as much time as he, as he was two years ago. Um, but when he's on his game, I wouldn't want, would you want to play, you played against him? Would you want to play against him? No, people still. I mean, listen, we try to match lines and, and they try to get away from it. If they enjoyed playing against Jordan, they would say you want Jordan against him fine, then just leave him out there. But they try teams try to get away from that and that's just a tribute to how he is. And I just saw him this morning and he looks as, as, as trim as ever and ready to go. Here's the thing. My, your one year as captain took a lot of pressure. I thought off Jordan. I think he is uh a better captain now than he because he was the captain before the year before. It was kind of weird. Uh We had two, for whatever reason. This is very strange here. Um But I thought Jordan and neither was him. Well, you, you and Justin and I had a conversation about, uh about that. The whole thing was weird. Um But I think he is more comfortable with who he is as a player and a person. And to me it's hard to be the captain and an effective one unless you are. And I just think he, his leadership is just awesome. I agree. I think it's hard because there's a difference between the most talented or the best player and the most important player and sometimes, you know, obviously we're lucky to have both. I think so. All right, let's, uh, let's let me dig in. We'll spend a couple of more minutes, we'll dig in on this series. Um, I'll, I'll go to you, Justin for the hockey part of this. Um, the Islanders are gonna play a certain way. I don't know if that, they actually played that way on Saturday night. I thought Carolina might have been even a little bit more physical than New York. How do you prepare for what the Islanders probably need to bring to get back in the series or not to get back? It's only 10, yeah. I mean, I think they played well, I think, you know, what teams look at, obviously we had a, we had a very good season in terms of special teams. Right. So, you know, if they wanna run around and, and do things and try and get us off our game physically or mentally, um, and end up in the penalty box is probably not great for them. Um, you know, our power play has, has looked really good. It's done it all year. Our penalty has done really well all year or two. So obviously they're looking for holes and, and looking for things that, that they can fix, but they're gonna play hard. I mean, they're gonna play extremely hard. It's the playoffs. I mean, these are great players in that team as well. And, um, you know, I think they give up a little bit more than what they used to give up. Um, but they have talented players who can put the puck in the net as well. So, um, this is gonna be a long series. You gotta go, you gotta go into everyone expecting seven and, and I know we, in our dressing room we expect that and, um, they're ready for it if they have to go, Tom, would you take 28 playoff games? That's, uh, that's the max. That'd be good. I know. I mean, I, like, I say, I prefer it, not like that. I prefer it winning quicker because it's so you'd like 16. Yeah, for sure. Fewer home games though. That's, that's less money. Yeah, that, that's not, um, I think it gets confusing because we run the business the right way, but the winning is, it's not in the same category as the money, right? The money is not. How do you separate, how, how do, how does Tom Dundon separate the business of the Carolina Hurricanes and the play of the Carolina Hurricanes? To me, the business, there's a right and a wrong way to do things you wanna operate. You want to optimize, you have to have, you know, you want to give a good experience and you have a price for that and you create value and I look at how we do, how, what experience we create for our fans relative to the rest of the league and other sports and you just want to be the best you can be at that, you know, on the winning side, I'm, if we think a player can help, it's just about the cap, it's not about the money. Right. Well, you guys have, you've proven like, I mean, you've been up against the cap based, you know, last four years, the last time you weren't, you weren't you bought um your bar, Patrick Marlow, which got, well, which leads me to Seth my gosh, I'll ask you about Seth in a second, Justin before we let you go. Um Does Seth have, does, does a deal a long term deal for Seth have to happen this off season if he wants it to, like, we always want to do long term deals with young players. So we're, we're always trying to do that, that if that's more, can you find the right the right mix of leaving yourself deflect, making sure the players are compensated for how good they are and what they bring to the team, but leaving enough for the other people because everybody wants to win, right, the better you are, the harder it is. Um To me, we knew Seth was a better player last year with less production in more games he had fewer points in more games last year than the year before. But if you watch every game, you can see he was getting better and he was a better overall player. How do you look at Seth Jarvis year three? I mean, development's been great. I mean, you, you draft these kids in the first round, you expect them to be great right away. Right. And I think that's, that's obviously the wrong way to do it right. Everybody's gonna develop at their own time. Everybody's gonna, um, you know, be impactful potentially at a different time and, and some people have ceilings and some don't. And obviously Seth is getting opportunities to do a lot of more different things play on the first unit power play play out there with Jordan Stahl on the, on the first unit PK like he's, he's playing a lot. Um, but he's earned that right. He's, he's absolutely earned that. He's first in every corner. He's, he comes up with a lot of pucks and he's creating a lot of, uh a lot of offense for his linemates and, and people love playing with him and, and I can see why his personality. I mean, that's helps too. That help, doesn't that help both ends? It helps the play and doesn't it help the business for Seth? I'm sure it does. I don't know how to quantify that, but more than anything. Um it helps you be proud and feel good about your team and more people when you get to know these people and you realize they're good people and they're fun and the other guys are together. So I don't know how many more fans buy tickets, but I know I appreciate that. It's got to be a lot of 24 jersey sales going off the shelves. We've talked about this and this sounds, there's not enough merchandise you can sell to put a dent in the kind of money that you have to spend on players and all that. But yes, for me, it's not the money on the jersey sales. It's much more about the people who are in that jersey. They're proud of their team, they identify with the player, they care, regardless of the economics of that. That's an indication of just what kind of an impact he's got. And I have to, before, before I, I've probably kept you longer than Justin wanted because Justin's starving here if, if I had known we would have had something brought in, um, the development where, how, how close are you Tom to getting not shovels in the ground? But you know, when is it, when do you plan to start, uh, what's the first phase? Is there any light you can shed on that, the area around the arena? Yeah, I think we're, we're like moon the final documents now. So it's just however long that takes, but it's pretty close. I mean, it's been worked on for months and so it's all the little stuff now I think it's close. Alright uh I I'm rooting for 28 games because it's fun uh and whatever you know, if you want 1616 will be good too. I'm not gonna knock 16. Um I'll get, well I won't get a longer off season. It'll be the same because the Stanley Cup finals gonna be played a couple days. Rod doesn't like rest. He he he hates it. Alright, Justin Williams. Tom Dundon, I appreciate both of you guys coming in. Uh huge surprise. Nice to see both of you and you didn't, you don't, you smell fine. You didn't work hard enough. There you go on the pickle ball court. Uh Tom Dundon. Justin Williams maybe I'll see you guys at the arena coming up tonight.